I just looked down at the paper and I felt this wave of total anxiety come over me and then all of a sudden it was like my brain stopped working and it felt like I was looking at a different language. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. St. Martins Press. Some suggest that energy-conservation constraints favored our thoughts sliding along low-resistance neural ruts that include simple feel-good narratives. I just saw the Netflix Documentary last night. What was the arrangement and the special business relationship Steven had with the Church in this regard? In another post Ill comment on the Mark Hoffman affair. Or even presenting the center view? What are your views on how the Book of Mormon was created? document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. I shared this source with Mike Quinn when he was writing _Early Mormonism and the Magic World View_. There is a newish movement who rejects that the book of mormon ever occurred in South America. It is important that we be critical thinkers and examine the sources providing information, in the same way we would want to know the credentials of someone dispensing medical advice, car repair advice etc. Why have you distanced yourself from actively publishing and engaging topics on forums as you did in years past? For one thing, you were damn good at martial arts. I would love to hear more about what unfolded after Hoffman, including how you came to be excommunicated, if you care to share that. All of these documents are available on the Joseph Smith Papers Project website. location 502, 899, 5027 of 9578, Last edited on 26 December 2022, at 05:30, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, "The LDS intellectual community and church leadership: A contemporary chronology", BOOK OF MORMON SCHOLARS UNLEASH SALVO OF BARBS, "MAPPING BOOK OF MORMON HISTORICITY DEBATESPART I", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brent_Lee_Metcalfe&oldid=1129585083, This page was last edited on 26 December 2022, at 05:30. 52K views 2 years ago Iowa's Brent Metcalf took down Ohio State's Lance Palmer in a thrilling title bout at 149 pounds in the 2010 NCAA wrestling championships. I still remember the demo you and your friends gave in the Rec Hall for Mutual. As I went towards the house, this thought came into my mind, why do I feel so different from what I did a short time past : I am unspeakably happy and shall never see trouble again.. I went to BYU and graduated with honors but I did everything I could to get out of reading or to read beforehand what I could be asked to read out loud. [4] He grew up a member of the LDS Church in a devout family, and served a mission for the LDS Church. Brent Metcalf. And how many. Today the church has suffered too many blows to its claims of certainty to dare to treat its members the way it treated Brent Metcalfe. This doesn't mean that Metcalfe has accurately translated that theory into his study of things Mormon. The 7th East Press is one of the great university newspapers; truly the stars aligned when this group got together. Unfortunately, much of the middle portion of the interview was lost due to technical issues that were only discovered after we completed the interview. I believe Brent said he has the copy in his records.**. Ive known many of Brents views (his liking Raymond Brown, etc.) Brent Lee Metcalfe's Assumptions and Methodologies Reviewed by William 1. This is definitely a not-miss interview. They use evidences such as paintings from the 1600s showing native americans using temple signs/tokens, apparent cuneiform writings being discovered that spell Yod Hey Va, and that the Hopewell/Adena Indians are the Nephites/Jaredites. Lex, the recommendation by Andrew is a good resource. From Spencer Kimballs battle with dementia to Monsons where the hell is that driver, to the insights with Mark E Peterson, Brents influential instructors at the University of Utah. So, considering all that they had been through, when Mark was named a suspect, Brent didnt even think twice before defending his friend on television. [9][10] His father was the managing director of the Temple Department for the LDS Church. So my question is, what if the effort for the book of Abraham was an attempt by JS and his close friends to deliver an esoteric masterpiece. She was very impressed with the level of esoteric teachings in the D&C and Pearl of Great price. Thats something each person must decide for themselves, but Ive made peace with my own interpretation.. Although he refused to read her book, a respected Mormon scholar named J. Reuben Clark asked the Deseret News to publish his long review of No Man Knows My History. "Mark deceived everyone," Co-director Jared Hess told Deseret News. The lengthy, five-part series covers Metcalfes childhood in Mormonism, his mission, his time []. I have never heard of the description that its like talking to someone in the airport on their cell phone, with all the background noise. It was so amazing to hear another person explain nearly my identical experience. Thank you Brentyou are certainly one of the true Saturdays Warriors Thank you Mormonstories.org I am glad I came across your website! It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. What an amazing life Brent! How did you encourage this masterpiece which, in my opinion, decimates the churchs past claims on the BofA? [9] According to Metcalfe, he had written a letter to LDS Church leader Gordon B. Hinckley, disputing the grounds for his termination. Thanks again Brent! hendrick motorsports hats; brent metcalfe excommunicated Nicely done, John. Mark Metcalfe Project Manager - Heavy Lift Division at Western Mechanical Electrical Millwright Services Ltd. Kitchener, Ontario, Canada 500+ connections https://signaturebookslibrary.org/?p=24440. Hinckley never responded, but was shortly thereafter offered the job by Christensen, which Metcalfe felt was orchestrated by Hinckley. Yes! In these two episodes we discuss: The aftermath of the Mark Hofmann bombings, and Brent's excommunication for his research into the Book of Mormon, and. Two more parts (3 & 4) to come. As a personal friend and research assistant for both Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, Brent Metcalfe watched the whole episode unfold right before his eyes. Unresolved: Release in which this issue/RFE will be addressed. The failure of faith concept was very interesting, and I can only say but for the grace of God. In Part 5, we explore the history surrounding Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham(one of the primary scriptural texts for the LDS Church). How have things changed over the decades? http://mormonstories.org/brent-metcalfe-hofmann-bombings-excommunication-book-of-mormon/, Scan this QR code to download the app now. Thanks Brent for sharing your story with usand to John for bringing it to us. Also, the rest of your experience is so totally mind-blowing-interesting. Brent Metcalfe borrows the titles of a few works on literary and narrative theory and then concludes that such theory under mines the historical claims of the Book of Mormon. Does your wife and/or children? This is one of my all-time favorites. Funny how I was taught at BYU The Glory of God is Intelligence I find comfort in knowing I am not alone. What is your spirtuality/worldview like post-Mormonism? [7] The LDS Church fired Brigham Young University professor David Wright for his contribution to the volume, and excommunicated both Wright and Metcalfe shortly thereafter. I always enjoyed our discussions years ago about your love for the Indians in your mission and then your experience doing research with their culture and you feelings towards the Book of Mormon. Do as I say and not as I do. This was something I surmised most of my adult life. Thank you Brent and John. Really, such a great family. What do you think about the DCP/Hamblin FARMS implosion? But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. The gift of your ADHD shines. I have one teensy-tiny criticism about Johns sensitivity when someone questioned why Brent did not pursue an advanced degree. It didnt have anything to do with church history or anything you would read in something like the CES letter, but was instead a realization and acceptance that its not me, its the church followed by a complete collapse of everything. And much was going on. Truth or legend? There was an overall feeling that he just had it together. In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hofmanns eventual plea deal. It seems to me that going with what you may think everyone around knows is right (even if it isnt) more easily allows for these kinds of experiences more than realizing there are differences of opinion and thought and then vying for spiritual confirmation. @BHMetcalf. As coincidence would have it, a few months later I became her home teacher. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. In 1994, Professor David Wright of Brandeis University and editor Brent Metcalf were excommunicated for their scripture studies in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology In 1995, author Janice Allred was excommunicated for her writings about Mother in Heaven. They are in a tough spot. I very much appreciated the beautiful memories and great stories Brent shared about what a remarkable and kind person Steve was. I suppose the precedent was set by Joseph himself in burning down the Nauvoo Expositor because he didnt like the content, and labelled it anti Mormonit wasnt even, William Law was a believer, who could no longer take Josephs hypocrisy. This is a rumor I heard. In other words, if it is an intrinsic aspect of a tradition to make historical claims or assertions about the underlying nature of the world, the falsification of those claims essentially undermines the character of that tradition. Do you have any idea what his views are now about the church, what he did, etc.? Thanks for the clarification. Steve Christiansen was my bishop in that centerville ward and I grew up with his children. I need help with casting ZEE5 on my TV. Did you ever suspect there was something not quite right with Mark Hoffman? Brent is a fascinating interview for Mormon Stories for many reasons, including: Please post your questions for Brent here. She spoke of her life and what has happened in the 30 years since one of Utah's most infamous crimes, Thursday October 8, 2015. Growing up as a full believer, Brent followed the conventional routine and did the missions, after which he spent a lot of time in the historical archives of the Church, researching documents and working with the security department. This is one of the best MS interviews I have heard so far. fireside chat september 3, 1939 summary . Visit with the Skabelund family, 9:30-10:30 am,. Little trace of Morison survives for much of the early 1540s, but it is clear that he built up his landed base and attached himself to . And great questions John. Thank you John and Brent. dave davies wife. It was torturous turning out essays to suit a particular lecturers preferences in order to gain high marks. When discussing some of the details surrounding the Book of Abraham, he mentioned the Tale of Onidas and Kitumen. I have never heard of that before and cannot find anything about it. I thought you were very well spoken Brent. Thank you Brandt for sharing your experiences. A special thanks to Brent for giving up so much of his time to do these episodes, especially some of them as he was feeling very much under the weather. It was so, so interesting. My examples are numerous and heart breaking. [4], In 1993 Metcalfe organized a group of scholars to publish a series of essays that sought to apply techniques of higher criticism to the Book of Mormon. January 15, 2015. Menu. He also talks about his early forays into Mormon studies. Great interview. Did John take the tapes home to show his wife? Brent Metcalfe. What if we are all chasing literal meanings of words such as translation, ages and names while in effect they are meant to have symbolic meaning and by this to explain esoteric principles to insiders. But Brent seems to do just the opposite. Doxey denied asking about Metcalfe. The look of Jesus on me removed the burden of my sins, while he spoke these words, Be faithful until death and this shall be thy place of rest. I never had seen Jesus Christ before, nor heard his voice, nor ever had a sense of his intercession at the right hand of God for me till now (Billy Hibbard, _Memoirs of the Life and Travels of B. Hibbard, Minister of the Gospel_ [New York: J. C. Totten, 1825], 23). Brent Metcalfe, Sue's husband of 23 years, is doing everything he can to support both Sue and Samantha. John in wonderfully rare form in this oneI love it! Fixed: Release in which this issue/RFE has been fixed.The release containing this fix may be available for download as an Early Access Release or a General Availability Release. Its a band called The Lower Lights. We may be on our own and need to create our own justice and future, but its possible that Providence does in fact sometimes intervene. OMAHA, Neb. He eventually concluded that the document was not an actual historical account and compiled a book of essays suggesting the same, entitling it New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, published in the 90s. I was with one of his relatives the day he was charged with the bombings, and she was totally shocked & absolutely certain he had nothing to do with it. I just finished listening to part one and I loved it! I heard this in contrast to the snippet of Steve Christensens wife on a news show asking about what Steve Christensen was threatening Mark Hofmann with if he didnt produce the McClellin collection where she stated something along the lines of He was going to go to the police and have him arrested. It is true that Mac Christiansen did pay for Marks sons mission. :). Looking around me, every object was changed, and a bright glory appeared on everything. Thomas, I can assure you Im living on the same planet you are. accounting for llc member buyout; black barber shops chicago; otto ohlendorf descendants; 97 4runner brake bleeding; Freundschaft aufhoren: zu welchem Zeitpunkt sera Semantik Starke & genau so wie parece fair ist und bleibt 7 czerwca 2022. Hearing Brent break down the Hoffman timeline and story was amazing. Sincerely, Terry. Is having spiritual experiences while doing what some may view as critical research on the Book, when you know there may be opposing views to your work, grounds for also having these feelings? And if Christianity/Mormonism is *false*, then were being done a tremendous service in this falsification. Now, in the wake of 200 years of such scholarship, the Bible doesnt hold up much better than the Book of Mormon. I devoutly attended BYU in the mid 70s. How was Christensen reimbursed or rewarded by the Church for his document ventures? Hoffman was Laffertys cell mate. Now that the new Netflix documentary Murder Among the Mormons has come out, it also validates the important witness that Brent was in this event. Yeah for Signature Books, Matt Christensen, and the internet!!!!! What scenario for the books origins have you constructed over your many years of study? From your perspective, what are the 3-5 best pieces of evidence for the historicity of the bom? Would that fit the time frame the book is given in? I remember being troubled by the lack of divine discernment that the brethren have/had. We have to learn to get along and improve our conditions wherever we are and it is a much more difficult task because of all the varied belief systems prevalent in the world. I love the podcasts. Where we should push back is, if someone solely discredits someone without examples of where their information is wrong or flawed ie simply attacking the messenger instead of the message. She also noted that after JS none of the preceding Church leaders really got what he was trying to do/teach in this realm. Hi Brent, Thank you for your insights and open heart. [9][4], After being fired from his job in security for the LDS Church for his writings, Metcalfe worked first for Steve Christensen and later for Mark Hofmann. But it has not always been that way or worked in his favor. He also talks about his early forays into Mormon studies. But are there any podcasts that go deeper in to Gnostics, esoteric teachings, metaphysics, etc. Tom, have you considered allowing John to interview you? I wouldnt presume that Brendt is unaware of this and that his worldview does not follow from this hes well read. african american gastroenterologist near me; district 36 lofts; how to turn off scan text on iphone 12 2023 Cinemaholic Inc. All rights reserved. I also appreciate your parting words. Thanks so much for posting this. Ive always felt like crises of faith didnt quite describe my journey but Brent gave me the phrase that perfectly describes my experience. We were both greenies at the same time. John and I are just trying to align our schedules, so expect parts 3 & 4 soon. Shortly after returning home and leaving the church he was very active in Sunstone and various things of that nature, but has since moved on with his life and seems very happy with a small family of his own running a small restaurant he and his older brother own together. Brenten "Brent" Metcalfe joined NW3C after working in law enforcement for over 13 years. Brent provided a detailed account of the Mark Hoffman story with a perspective that we seldom hear. Brent had some trouble remembering the details of the events (so did I, and I wasnt there, although I read all of the relevant literature at the time), but I think this is a very good summing up by Jerald Tanner, Confessions of a White Salamander: https://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackingconfessions1.htm. Coming! He said that a response finally came not from Hofmann but from one of the Lafferty brothers who was apparently Hofmanns cell mate or on the same block or something like that. They have proven time and time again that that is all they care about. brent metcalfe excommunicated. Lance is a Gnostic priest and has written and spoken extensively on the Gnostic and esoteric flavor of Joseph Smiths writings. [5][6], According to the Deseret News, the response from the apologetic community was "vitriolic. [8], Metcalfe is a native of New Zealand. Maxine Hanks was also in my ward. According to Metcalfe, he was questioned by LDS Church authorities about his writing for the 7EP and Sunstone was "forced to resign" from his job in April 1983. This was very similar to my experience. pigella miraculous ladybug power. All things praised God with me. But I have a question for Brent. What historical issues does he think are most worthy of exploration, and how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources? I found this podcast to be very fascinating. In Part 2, Brent describes working for and with Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, the Salamander Letter episode, and the bombings that took the lives of Steve and Kathy Sheets. What advice does Brent have for aspiring Mormon historians? But such intellectual issues didnt play a role in my failure of faith. If I applied Vatican II to the full breadth of Catholicism, I clearly misspoke (Im not even sure why I would make such a sweeping claim, so I am a tad mystified). It was fascinating and enlightening to see the underbelly of ongoings between church leaders and members. Rude Dog Never fear! It also struck me that Brent in some ways represents the inverse of Sandra Tanner. and our For the listeners who are curious, a portion of the book describes a first vision, copied below: https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=XH0rAAAAYAAJ&pg=GBS.PA54, The Lamb once slain appeared to my understanding, and while viewing him, I felt such love to him as I never felt to anything earthly. The time has come to really dig in and discover our true human beginnings without religious bias. What academic publications does Mr. Metcalfe have to his name that qualifies him to be called one of the foremost scholars in understanding the Book of Abraham? Unintended consequences here we come! Very cool, any personal stories youd like to share? Thank you for sharing it with me. [4] His supervisor removed the probation, but on April 8 Metcalfe's employment was terminated. Yes, because remember that the paradigm speaking through Mikes words is not just representative of him. Serious insight and analysis of the religion Im trying to fit into my new, authentic life. Isnt that a dangerous and at least weak and anything goes approach, especially for fanatical groups? o David Wright was excommunicated for apostasy in April 1994 for his nontraditional views on Mormon scripture as exhibited in essays like his chapter in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. but he threw out the baby with the bath water as if the success of Christianity rode on the success of Joseph Smith.. My question is: please discuss this shift or emphasis away from evidences and honest research (study it out in your mind), to just feelings, in regards to determining truth. I had a similar reaction to the section about ADD. The Book of Abraham? If you were to interview Mark Hofmann, what would your top questions be? I appreciate the details of Brents experience. Anyone know what that is and where I can find out more? I could read fine in private but the social damage was done and anxiety overwhelmed me every time. "The Mormon murders: A true story of greed, forgery, deceit, and death." Regardless of what one takes to be the truth of things, the evidence is not in favor of liberal religiosity as a recipe for church growth- those churches and communities which move away from their traditional truth claims tend to atrophy relatively speedily. You know, guilt by association. The irony is, I wasnt an activist for anything, I simply wanted to write. Be the first to contribute! What did they accomplish by kicking any of you out? It is better thought of by non-Catholics (generally), but this has not translated into conversions or retention of cradle Catholics. funeral directors southend; penalty charge notice costs; johns manville headquarters address; Hello world! "[7] William J. Hamblin responded specifically to an article by Metcalfe. My epiphany also came suddenly, while driving, followed by a massive emotional experience. As for the photocopy of Wilford Poulsons parallel, yes, I still have it in one of hundreds of boxes in a storage unit while my house is being remodeled. And you are an example. Thanks Brent for your sincerity, honesty and pleasant demeanor in which you talk about these things. If the Prophet cant see Hoffman as a fraud, why should anyone assume their Bishop/Stake president has any more ability in terms of divinely inspired discernment? Dont know who the nuts are that Church Security referred to, but Jerald Tanner probably expressed the most legitimate concerns. What has Brent done to mitigate his ADD? Riveting stuff. Thank you. Why didnt the Lord reveal to the prophet that the documents were forged? Lex, you might be interested in the work of Lance Owens. But thats when he came across books arguing the truthfulness of Mormonism and began questioning the same. [8] Personal life [ edit] Metcalfe is a native of New Zealand. Metcalfe is on the editorial board of the John Whitmer Historical Association. Thank you as well for your research, especially your work on New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. And theres no way that you can change it.