And both of them give more wattage per handle than a KW or ZW. Lionel Ready-to-Play is a large sized train that's made to be affordable and easy-to-use for both kids and adults alike. How to open tamper resistant outlets, Xxcopy vs Xcopy: Command line copy utilities, Where to connect the red wire to a light switch, Brains 25 cents: The story behind the meme. CW80 Transformer. Keeping in mind that I will likely continue to add to the layout as my addiction develops! Now, I am going to make a suggesstion that you use a larger diameter curve for your corners. Below weve listed these transformers in numerical order in the Numerical Index. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. To participate you must either login or register for an account. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. What type is your old transformer? This comes primarily from the locomotive(s) but also from lights and other accessories. As an example, look at these two cars closely: While both are gondola cars and run on O Gauge track, note how the car on the left is much longer than the one on the right. Thanks in advance for any information, Mike. Check out my O scale layout progress at MTF, does track consume power? There are many advantages in repairing or reconditioning your transformers. Its a bargain at that price. Again, an independent power supply and distribution bus is a good idea for your switches. Daniel Defense firearms, parts and accessories, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9670, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/album.php?u=2334, 14X16 Switching style [url]http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8241, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkMHvbckuBLo3pJN1FGE1Gg. To build on the point you are running MTH trains and therefore will probably go DCS eventually: I would break the track into blocks of about 5 feet in length. So far, I haven't seen any way to do this except to take amp measurements or just wing it and see how hot your transformer gets. You could have a poor connection that caused the wire to heat up. For a passenger train with lighted cars, getting a little more power isnt a bad idea. First, a few general notes about choosing wire. You don't want to try to solder even Number 16 gauge wire right to your rails, however. Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership. Some DCC systems also recommend solid wire for certain applications. Likewise, if you only want to run one train at a time, you can keep other trains on the track by wiring with blocks, and turning off trains that are not in use. This has the added advantage that Lionel TMCC (command control) will operate correctly. The typ miniature incandecents we use average about 100 ma of current each. An Essential Guide for Toy Train Enthusiasts! I have a 3amp, 40watt transformer. Get DIY project ideas and easy-to-follow crafts to help you spruce up your space. Electric Trains make great power supplies, depending on usage, on a DCS controlled layout. Lionel 1033 Transformer Renovation Part I Peter Fenzel 306 subscribers Subscribe 11K views 3 years ago Lionel 1033 Transformer gets cleaned up, a new power cord, a new whistle rectifier. The larger wire is usually more expensive and more challenging to work with. Use this index to see additional details about the individual transformers issued by Lionel during the post-war period. That it not to say that there are not engineering formulae to calculate the current draw and thus the wattage, but far and away the easiest method is to measure it. Some systems will use bluetooth technology enabling you to control the trains with your tablet or cell phone. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. I have since wired the new transformer to my layout along with the old ZW. This signifies compatibility with 50 Hertz power. The same is true for other electronic projects around your layout and inside buildings, train cars, and even locomotives. If youre looking for Lionel transformer comparisons, youve come to the right place. Starter sets almost always include a power supply along with the track and train. Sell Your Trains Through an Online Auction Service. You have pretty much pointed up the major problem, everything is different. The Lionel 1033 can be used for small or medium-sized layouts. Effort. :-). By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. Controlled Magnetics has the manufacturing experience, knowledge, and facilities to repair a wide variety of electrical power transformers. (NEW/LIKE NEW), running TMCC And DCS engines with DCS handheld, terrible crash in Greece, multiple fatalities, Its.Public Delivery Track ..NEWSpecial run corner, Improving Appearance of 0-gauge Tubular Track. The two types of cars will connect together just fine, but when side-by-side in a train, they may look a bit odd. They do not include a track or power supply, so you will need to buy both separately. Also, I found an old guide printed by lionel on power requirements. Wire gauges are coded by their size. The load voltage and load amps must be known to calculate KVA rating. What do I need to do that with? Dave, the nice thing about Lionel transformers is you can run them until the bimetallic breaker pops and then you let it cool and you are back in action (after shutting a few things down)! Outdoor railroads are, of course, an exception! Many will still run on the track in your starter set, but because they are scale sized, the bodies of these cars may be slightly wider and longer than those in your set. Effort. However, in the future if you continue in the hobby and your roster expands you may acquire motive power which requires larger curves than what came with your set. I have had the same problem. They have everything you need for a basic setup, and the larger ones are capable of running the smaller layouts you see in the train magazines, so they have some room for growth. The smaller the number, the larger the wire. Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; A Passenger consist can easily use more power than the engine. Understanding the difference is important in getting the right power supply for your needs. For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. Past,presentand future. That transformer will only prolly handle 1 engine and depending on how long it is will depend on how many extra feeders you will need around the layout. Connecticut Valley Railroad -- A Branch of the New York, New Haven, And Hartford. If youre going to run more than one train, you can pair up two smaller transformers, or you can look at the two-handled transformers. The Lionel RW also happens to be a great transformer for Marx or American Flyer trains too, when you connect the track leads to the B and U posts instead of the A and U posts youd normally use for most Lionel setups. Extending the Reach of Your Power Obviously, for a lot of people, the $700 Lionel ZW-L transformer is overkill. Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around the entire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. I bet they would be great for running lights and unloading the main transformer. Sign up for new product releases, promotions, and more. At an average 14 volts - this is 9x14 = 126 watts - the ZW is getting quite warm and I have not run an accessory or another train yet! Here are a few: --The Lionel Fastrack Book, by Robert Schleicher. They're controlled with a simple handheld remote control and run on easy-to-connect plastic track. The old transformer is not really the problem, the problem is the supply wire, particularly under heavyload (or derailment without the benefit of a quicker breaker). The smallest wire you can work with will be more than sufficient. Forgot about light bulbs since I don't got some yet. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. The new Lionel ZW-L is getting a lot of good reviews and is a very powerful transformer for most layouts. Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. You can also run Lionel TMCC/Legacy Command Engines using the MTH DCS system with the addition of a Lionel command base and an additional cable. $2799. Serving these devices with their own dedicated supply will not only allow you to supply them with a proper constant voltage, but it will also free your main power supply to handle the load of the train itself. A large number of the Lionel Collectors Club UK use this set up to good effect. Apparently there is a difference between old conventional and new conventional power. Lionel makes two expansion sets for this purpose. The accessory activation track (#12029) is used to activate Lionel trackside accessories. Like command control, these trains still require a constant voltage to the rails. There was a video by Mike Reagan from Lionel about better smoke output from a chopped wave transformer, but the pure sine wave didn't cause any operational issues. Sell Your Trains To A Train Dealer or a Single Buyer. As your layout grows so, too, will its power demand. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. QUOTE: by Skyray "Typical engineer--you need a technician. There have been issues with chopped waveform transformers, i.e. Ive talked more about the KW here. It can run four tracks at one time, so you layout can grow. Never Enough Room, Time or Money for all the Trains! While most of the American Flyer products are re-issues using old Gilbert tooling from the 1950s, the O scale equipment is a combination of new designs and reissues. Just not quite as much. And if the power supply does fail, it is best not to repair it on your own. When you get DCS, keep the blocks and run the 2 sets off 2 Fixed channels out. Actually it was a train show with varied trains of all different eras being run I have mostly MTH trains though and they wouldn't run because the transformer that was running wasn't powerful enough to cycle through my MTH trainsounds. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. Both are lighted. As time goes on you can add higher wattage bricks one by one. You don't really need a diagram -- you want to pick your interval (some would recommend as often as 3'), drill a hole down through your base, and connect a wire to a bus which runs beneath the layout and connects to your transformer (obviously, you need two wires, one for each powered rail). If you want a transformer with power to spare go get a ZW! The iconic and legendary 270-wattLionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. As the motor takes in more electricity, the arm turns faster and faster. This type of transformer is cheap, its reliable, and its easy to find. They give a great deal of power in a single handled transformer, and if you run trains along with another person, it can be more convenient for you to both have a smaller transformer than for two people to huddle around a larger KW or ZW transformer and share its handles. But after a little while, you will likely want your train to do more, and youll start thinking along these lines: --It sure would be neat if it did more than run in a circle. This tool only evaluates common voltages for North America (ie. At fifteen volts which is about as much as I can put to it without jumping the track, it pulls an average of 2.5 amps, or 37.5 watts--less than one tenth of the transformer capacity of 400. The fraction of your transformer's power lost in the track will therefore be well under 10 percent, since it is proportional to the voltage drop. Never had a problem. Then the K's will do siding and switching yard duty. He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. If you make a complete loop of 100 feet with good track joints, you'll have something like .1 ohm from the transformer to the farthest point, using the rule of thumb that most track is something like 16 AWG wire (.004 ohms per foot) and that there are two 50 foot tracks feeding the farthest point from two directions. Wow.thanks for all the advice so far, guys!! However, if you begin to add lighted cars, or more than a couple accessories, you may find that your train will not run as fast, or that it will shut off entirely. Tales From Harmon Shops, WTB: LIONEL AUTRORACKS SPECIFICALLY SOUTHERN,GRAND TRUNK,BNSF,FERROMEX. Also, you wont be able to take advantage of independent control of multiple engines on the same track without a digital controller. The 190-wattLionel KWwas the second biggest and second best transformer of the postwar era. These systems still require a power supply but it only needs to supply a constant voltage to the rails. The circuit breaker should trip with a click and the transformer should go dead. These small power supplies are designed to supply a few amps of power. Subscribers, sign in to access exclusive content. Fortunately, in the early 21st century it is easier to expand your starter set than ever before. This set also includes an uncoupling track section, which will disconnect cars from one another at the touch of a button, and a bumper, which keeps cars from rolling off the end of the track. DCC is less common in starter sets, but some are available. A 10 amp breaker and 16 gauge wire would be appropriate for an old ZW. --Toy Train Collecting and Operating, by John Grams. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. 40-500 50 Watt AC Transformer - 50 Watt AC transformer suitable for . Viola, DCS on alternate power blocks, Max signal, Happiness. Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers Best Selling Lionel 1908080 O Gauge CW80 Transformers - Black (4) $147.85 New $110.00 Used Lionel Legacy Powermaster Lnl637146 (13) $134.99 New $90.00 Used Lionel 634120 TMCC Direct Lock-On Transformer - Silver (21) $58.99 New $49.99 Used Actually the choice of transformer is secondary to the choice of control systems since you can operate O gauge trains with most any good modern transformer. Heavier insulation not only adds to the cost of the wire but also makes it harder to bend. Unless I'm all wet it sounded like there are somecompatibilityissues with certain locomotives versus manufacturer's transformer output wave forms. The Lionel Multi-control 1033 is a 90 watt transformer produced from 1948 to 1956. HO gauge is very popular because of its size. If your track joints aren't near perfect or if you should want to split that loop into two blocks, you'll double the voltage drop. Join Today! Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers' Henry V. I am a person with a very active inner child. electronically controlled outputs. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content. They run on O Gauge track, but they are not exact O Scale cars. I am currently running about 40 bulbs, which at 0.1 A each total 4 amps! All power supplies will be rated for volts, amps, and watts. A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. Number 24 to Number20 wire will all work with most layouts. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. These transformers are much cheaper than they were even just a few years ago, but that just makes them a bigger bargain today. The chances are that little power supply isn't going to keep the train running over a full mile, however. A model railroad train set designed for use in the United States will have a 115V AC 60Hz power requirement. Most recommend the TPCs over the powermasters The CW 80 will work to begin with. I justhave a very basic 027 set (guessin' mid 80's?). Lionel makes a seemingly infinite number of cars to in a variety of colors, types, and road names. A starter set is the best way to start with the train hobby. You must be signed in to continue. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. Some people even find it fun. This thing has more power then I will ever need. What about removing flanges from diesel wheels? Well Mike what I am about to suggest may be a little pricy or at least it was for me but I have managed to buy a new Lionel ZW. Retrofitting a subway line into existing benchwork - and are subway sets still being made? If your layout is bigger than 48, you may actually find trains run a bit better with a KW than with a smaller transformer. Dave, you're so eloquent and inspiring - my undergraduate degree was in American Studies, now I'm in charge of among other things all our college's technology - also self-taught.. Hello All: Re: Dave Farquhar, Dave you left out sense of humor Regards Steve. Make your Christmas complete with a Lionel HO Train under your. The Lionel motor is a collection of four electromagnetic plates with a rotating sweeper arm called a brush. Thanks! I suggest that you proactively lay an 10-2 AWG NM cable (or at least 12-2) along the track and tap into it as needed to keep the voltage up. Price Received. The transformer, when operated at the lower frequency, may . The multi-conductor wire is also available. He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. With two switches, you can create an alternative route for your trains. A. If mixing both non-command as well as command engines, both by the way will run without any thing other than the appropriate transformer, it really depends on the budget. OTTS Founder This works for command control layouts too, since those parked trains are still drawing some current. Here at Trainz, we carry all of the products you will need to go from a starter set to a miniature railroad empire. Turn on the throttle, then short the A and U posts (in the case of Lionel) or variable and base posts (in the case of Flyer) with a screwdriver or a piece of wire for a maximum of five seconds. All Lionel transformer comparisons should include the common 1033, RW, LW, KW and ZW transformers. If the voltage drop in the track is more than a small fraction of the transformer voltage, that is, a volt or two, you are going to have trouble running the trains anyway. I paid $75 + shipping for mine a year ago. For instance, a 100 kilovolt-ampere transformer with 8.32 kilovolts (or less) on the high side has a typical value of 2.6% impedance. A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. I talk more in depth about the 1033 here. If you have a very long run, you may want to consider Number 12 wire. The first Lionel electric trains were powered by wet-cell batteries, which were, of course, dangerous. On the flip side, the new transformers do not seem to work as well with the prewar whistle tenders.Has anyone else noticed this anomaly? I use to use one KW for 70 feet of main line, sidings and switching yard entry track. ransformers were issued by Lionel thoughout the Post War period. 12V DC to 120V AC 60Hz pure sine inverter. Best bang for the buck for command are the Lionel 180W Powerhouse bricks IMO. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a . We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Lionel has a new 180 watt transformer due out soon that will be a nice upgrade. Again, if you have a very long run between switches, going a little larger is less likely to cause problems with voltage loss. In some cases. This will spread the load of your lighted passenger consist across the two transformers. As cheap as the 1033 is, if youre going to buy a transformer, you might as well pay a few dollars more to get a 1033. As you can see, a lot of great helpers here. I've had light 'arguments' with fellow hobbyists claiming most of their fellows are predominantly technically - oriented vs. what I would consider is a more liberal artsy approach - any way it's a great balance. But were talking the trains that are in the absolute best condition and might not have ever run on the track. Lionel made these for years and kept them in production under a different model number well into the 1970s because it was a reliable, dependable design and had enough power for a typical starter set while leaving some room to grow. In addition to the wire itself, connectors like crimp-on terminals and terminal blocks must also be purchased in larger (and more expensive) sizes. So, if you want to connect eight landscape lights to an electronic transformer, and the lights use 20 watts each, you would need a 160 watt transformer. Professionals Need: Kindle Direct Publishing Indie Digital & Print Publishing Made Easy Amazon Photos Unlimited Photo Storage Free With Prime: Prime Video Direct This means that they are not exact 1:48 replicas of the real thing but instead are selectively compressed to negotiate the tight turns of regular Lionel track. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. They are known as HO train sets because they are half the size of O-guage. But Lionel now produces four Track Expansion Sets, which expand this basic loop into something more exciting. Lots of good tips for building a layout from two of the most experienced people in the hobby. How do you choose the right power supply for your model trains? A locomotive on a mile-long loop will draw as many amps as it does on a 4x8 platform. Mark. Good choices are the Lionel 32923 Accessory Transformer, or another 80-watt transformer like the one included in your set, #14198. If this happens, you will need another transformer to share the load. Solid wire is preferable as it is much easier to solder to the rails. You may never use all the amps, but it's usually cheaper to grow into a power supply than to continually upgrade. Get 20 articles about compact layouts and how to build them. I cant see you needing more than a capacity of 5 amps. Max Watts on one TIU is 720W. 5 years of Classic Toy Trains at your fingertips! With the ever-increasing amount of small electronics in today's sophisticated models, this protection is more important than ever. By continuing to use this site, you indicate you accept these terms. Transformers are sized by determining the total load required (in amps). This is interesting stuff. The insulation on the outside of the wire also varies greatly. Note that when working with specific products, manufacturers will often recommend a wire size and type. For more realistic operation, you need some kind of speed control (throttle) between the 10340 Automatic Reversing Unit and your transformer. . The KW has constant voltage outputs for accessories, the ZW don't have that feature just four handles for supplying power to four tracks or accessories if you like, both have whistle & direction feature. www.spankybird.shutterfly.com, God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. I run an MTH 4-6-2 PS-1 pulling five Madisons on about fifty feet of track and the transformer I am using (Z-4000) has a digital amp readout. If you found this post informative or helpful, please share it! Improve ready-to-run freight cars with a little paint. I didnt mention the 1034 above because its easier to find a 1033. Lionel introduced a few LionChief Plus 2.0 starter sets in 2022. If you're looking to only have one loop with multiple sidings then you'll only need 1 source of power for the whole layout. And of course, individual Fastrack sections are also available. Most people start with a pre-packaged train set. The CW-80 is a nice little transformer, has accessory output as well,but as you have stated you will outgrow the CW-80 pretty quick. And again regardless of scale or manufacturer, switch machines of these two types will have similar needs and performance. Everything you need to get going is included, its reliable, and setup is usually very easy. Needless to say the "Spring into Spring" train show very nearly became unsprung! I know this has nothing to do with Mike's original problem but is more of a reflection on Trainman's reply. Effort. Today, with some luck, you can get one for closer to $100. Understanding Electrical Supplies and Controls. 10 Easy Ways to Improve a Christmas Train Display, Wiring a Model Railroad for Block Operation, How to Build and Wire Reverse Loops for Model Trains, How to Choose the Right Transformer for Your Model Trains, Compatibility of Different Model Train Brands, HO Scale Track Plans for Model Train Layouts, buildings, streets, and other scenic accessories. It was a symbiotic relationship, the engineer designed it and the tech built it, then they both troubleshot it. From 25 Watts to 275 Watts, a Lionel transformer could be found for every power requirment from simple circles of track to extensive railroads. is always one of the first questions asked when someone starts to build a model railroad. Safety first. From 25 Watts to 275 Watts, a Lionel transformer could be found for every power requirment from simple circles of track to extensive railroads. When running a mixed bag train show with new and old trains of mixed types such as Loinel and MTH which is better? Fortunately, there is an easy way to tell these cars apart, and the key is the numbers Lionel assigns to them. Transformer sizing for new systems Power the odd blocks with the other transformer. It also has an optional bell sound that can be turned on and off. This means that you will have about.5 volt drop if your train draws 5 amperes. You should always, always test your transformer for safetybefore you set it up, andunplug it when youre not using it. Twin coil machines have a higher current draw when in motion but are also much faster-acting than the motorized versions. The farther from the transformer the more resistance in the rails and your engine will slow down. That said, if youre uncomfortable fixing a transformer, I wont look down on you for buying one someone else fixed up. Lots of good information for building any size O Gauge layout. Digital command control systems (DCC) uses digital information to control the electrical power to the train. Here are some guidelines for the most common wiring jobs you'll find. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. Serious or fatal injuries may result. As you progress with your layout there are a lot of people here who will help you with any questions you have. Lionel Multi-Car Freight Sets + More MTH Halloween! The good news is, Lionel made a lot of good transformers over the years. The 110-wattLionel RW is a cheap option, and the 125-watt LW, while a bit more expensive, gives a bit more power. The power supply that comes with these sets is usually a very small wall pack plug-in that cannot be easily expanded. A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life.". The locomotives are battery-powered and made of durable plastic. While better starter sets usually include a more robust transformer, as a general rule the power pack supplied with your starter set is just thata start. Everyone wanted the two-handled, football-shaped, 275-watt powerhouse that was the ZW. Lionel Rolling Stock Identification Guide. no it isn't. Its expensive, but the same factors that drove KW prices down are also driving ZW prices down. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. Price Received. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. This is a old school approach for sizing cables & transformers or appliances in the electrical trade, & has never let us down. Choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. I know my train club had an issue with conventional locomotives not running properly on a layout with DCS and TMCC and apparently solved it by replacing a Lionel transformer with an MRC transformer that puts out a pure sine wave. I don't want to buy a lot more track, but then find out the transformer is too weak, if that make sense. Model train power falls into one of three categories. Starter set locomotives can pull up to 12 cars easily, and most can handle up to 20, so building a longer train will not harm your engine. Take the hint. what size lionel transformer do i need. Classic Toy Trains 5-Year Collection 2015-2019 DVD-ROM. Keep the power supplies in an area where they get plenty of air circulation to prevent overheating. Classic Toy Trains magazine offers information about toy trains operating and collecting, toy train product news and reviews, toy train layout tips, toy train layout designs and track plans, and more. I'm guessing the MTH Z1000 is around $100 and the other suggestions are much more expensive. There isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, so you'll need to consider what you want to do and measure your options accordingly. Faq No: 1029 Mike to the forum. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. Price Received. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! Today Lionel includes the same basic track oval in all starter sets8 36-inch diameter curve sections, 3 10 straight track sections, and 1 10 straight terminal section, which create this layout: Until recently, to add to this layout, you would need to buy separate straight, curved, and other track sections and wing it in creating a larger setup. One rail is positive, the other negative. Are you looking for a product or serviceif so, then read this BEFORE you post! The backside of a control panel can turn into a "rat's nest" of wiring very quickly. As Paul said, the power needed doesn't have anything to do with the distance; but the voltage needed does. That might work, but it's probably borderline, especially if you are using something like a 1033 transformer that tops out at 16 volts.
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